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A presentation that gives no answers

Pachol

Pachol

Active member
Hello,
We were waiting and waiting for the presentation day, after it was published I can only sum it up in one word - disappointment.
Not only it's a poor, rusty and re-used design, but it is not informative. It was said that this will be 2013 version of WoM, prequel of this server, and it seems like you think that everyone remember gameplay from those years.
Those kind of presentations were popular long time ago. Nowadays we expect to see presentation as some kind of guide for the server that we plan to join.
I didn't learned anything that I didn't knew before reading it, to every point of your presentation I'd have some questions:

  • Chapters:
    • How long will they last?
    • What can we expect from the 2nd chapter?
    • Players are allowed to drop "huge" suggestions of upcoming chapers, or they will always bring what WoM2 had in the past?
  • The Kingdoms:
    • Can we teleport to other Kingdoms from 'tab map'?
    • There will be mission at Balso to change Kingdom?
  • Races:
    • Did you halved mage's buffs?
    • What is the Taichi's HP value on P?
    • What happened to 'Remove Magic' from Weapon Sura?
  • Skills:
    • Can we read 3 books at the same time?
    • Where can we drop Soul Stones?
    • How to gain rank after losing it from Soul Stones?
    • What cooldowns for Books?
Ok, I will stop now but as you see, there are too many questions, not all, but some of them could be explained in presentation, or make an official Ultimate[*] Guide.
You cannot be stubborn forever with a statement "player should learn the game" because it's not a thing anymore, there is still enough to learn and adapt when you join a new server.
Sometimes lack of information may lead to leaving the project before it starts, not everyone loves to discover game that is supposed to be a rivalry game.
Take a look on other big MMORPG titles, I can mention here (cuz I played them) New World & Lost Ark, I could learn about the game even before starting them on launch day, I could plan what I will do, I could check videos from promoters, and I had no feeling that beta testers will have an advantage over me. For now, this is how you reward playtesters - they and their allies, guilds will know more about your server, which is not fair at all.

To sum up, the idea of discovering the game on your own has not appealed to anyone for years. The presentation was proudly announced, and to be honest, looks like it was done in one day, several pictures, text in the same frame. And no, I don't fully blame designer, as I know that format and information are given by someone else. There won't be a new presentation but I hope some detailed guide or open Q&A channel/thread will be made.

Best regards,
Pachol.
 
F

Fujitora

Member
This made me finally register on forum.
You have 100% right,people asking same things on discord for so long and i don`t know how this is not time consuming and wasting, answering the same questions getting the same response (you will find out on the sv).Why is not clear what are we getting from apretience chest (10lv opening chest)? Why we don`t a preview or a mini spoiler with the battle pass or even with the itemshop? Chaos drop, normal metins drop, naaga and demon tower drop? Do we have extra inventoryes? Liquids and pushes? For the past idk 2-3years no one made a presentation like this to show off basic metin2 things. And the questions above, verry usefull little things that you can actually add to presentation or even in that FQA.
You ask for trust or better saying demand trust but you have so little to offer. And don`t come off with bs like "you can play what server you like" or "if you don`t like it you can go" those are some low minded phrases that i hate so much.I want to like to play the server bcs i liked it in the past that shoud be the logic behind everyone tghouts when they think about playing on wom server.Now you said you changed it a bit, no complains some things were outdated let`s say, but why is not clear what?
Things like the horse, at lvl 15 pony, lv 35 armedhorse and lvl 50 military. Really? Tell me what do i have to do at lv 15 ponny? Do i get for free? i have a mision or idk..?Same thing with armed and military, if you said you changed things, elaborate them. Let`s not talk about categories like armors in presentation, gap filled to be more photos in presentation.
The begging of this project looks too alike with the other one (who everyone knows as the biggest fail of private servers) to liitle info about everything. Staff and gameplay.
We as players can just hope it`s not a fail, and just offer feedback or suggestions, but i don`t see relevant answers from the staff just same robotic answer.
 
Yamamoto

Yamamoto

Administrator
Staff member
The presentation is for marketing, it's supposed to show how the game looks like and the overall gameplay. It's not supposed to be an in depth instruction manual.

Regarding your unnecessary comments about the style, well - at least we have a style as opposed to hire the same designer as every other server to come up with a style for us.

Now, if you want instructions, the game guide is here:

WoM2 |Global server |Client Download

WoM2Global the best Metin 2 pserver online! Home Page
global.wom2.org global.wom2.org

As for your questions:

1. Chapters will last for some months. We don't see the point of setting schedules we could not be able to fulfill and instead leave it open, relying instead on milestones.

2. Second chapter will bring an increase in level cap and gradual introduction of the additional content that comes with it. Furthermore, there will be a focus on guild and kingdom specific content.

3. We are not bringing the old content verbatim. The idea of this release strategy is that we can set ourselves some specific guidelines and add back that content with changes that follow those guidelines. For example, not trying to solve unbalances by adding further unbalances, not trying to solve inflation by simply allowing for more money to be held, and so on. I cannot tell you exactly what those changes will be as it has not been discussed yet. Thus we are of course open for suggestions but keeping in mind that trying to please players can result in wrong decisions (thinking about events that reward way too much stuff here for example)

4. You can teleport to other maps, but not enemy maps. Let's remember we want to emphasize that those kingdoms are enemies.

5. Why would we halve mage's buffs?

6. Exact figures, algorithms and the like, other than what you can see ingame, are not provided to players.

7 Remove magic was nerfed long time ago, and it stays that way, as it was decided that it made pvp more fun.

8. Not sure what you mean by "reading 3 books at the same time"

9. Soul stones drop from bosses and metins.

10. You can gain rank from Zen Beans and Peach, or just by the running of time.

In any case, we are sorry if you feel the guide is incomplete. We are working in our spare time and the priority for us is to finish in-game content which we feel is more important given that there's already a big interest because well it's WoM2 so most people will try it anyway regardless of whether they like the presentation or not. Either way, the comparison to other MMORPGs is not fair because you can play WoM2 perfectly fine without having instructions, since in the end it's the same game you've always played.

In any case, we do not intend to reveal precise figures about damage, cooldowns and the like, other than what can be found in-game, as we think it would spoil the fun of discovering the game. And when I talk about discovering the game, I do not mean the content, but what is the precise or fastest way to reach your goal in PvP or PvM.
 
GabiFX

GabiFX

New member
You ask for trust or better saying demand trust but you have so little to offer. And don`t come off with bs like "you can play what server you like" or "if you don`t like it you can go" those are some low minded phrases" 👏 (Or just act like children and give a timeout so we don't have a dialogue)

Hello,

And do you think it's normal to have to answer every single question to each player, I have a minimum of 20 questions on gameplay, and probably another 100 people with another 20, don't you think a more detailed video would be better? Or an in-game wiki?

And that's not all, you've offered absolutely useless things, like for example the bloody sword got strong bonus against undead, if you claim that a wiki in the game won't exist, how am I supposed to find out if it's worth making that +9 weapon? Since you came up with absolutely new stuff don't you think we should go into details?

As for beta testing, meaningless answers like "they worked so they have the advantage of knowing the game" well if it's about working why wasn't it an open beta so they could let everyone work? =))

Clearly this was not the solution but the answer you gave was a disturbed one, from my point of view one of the staff members could also dedicate some time and edit a video showing a player's journey.

I see you mentioned that you are focusing on in-game content, so I take it that: after a month and a half of delay you guys still haven't reached the point where you are just refining ?

And of course the guide needs to be much more detailed since that's the only solution for which it should balance the beta-tester / new player situation.I don't think you're stealing anyone's fun with informations,it's everyone's choice if they want to read the information provided or not

Thanks.
 
Yamamoto

Yamamoto

Administrator
Staff member
GabiFX said:
You ask for trust or better saying demand trust but you have so little to offer. And don`t come off with bs like "you can play what server you like" or "if you don`t like it you can go" those are some low minded phrases" 👏 (Or just act like children and give a timeout so we don't have a dialogue)

Hello,

And do you think it's normal to have to answer every single question to each player, I have a minimum of 20 questions on gameplay, and probably another 100 people with another 20, don't you think a more detailed video would be better? Or an in-game wiki?

And that's not all, you've offered absolutely useless things, like for example the bloody sword got strong bonus against undead, if you claim that a wiki in the game won't exist, how am I supposed to find out if it's worth making that +9 weapon? Since you came up with absolutely new stuff don't you think we should go into details?

As for beta testing, meaningless answers like "they worked so they have the advantage of knowing the game" well if it's about working why wasn't it an open beta so they could let everyone work? =))

Clearly this was not the solution but the answer you gave was a disturbed one, from my point of view one of the staff members could also dedicate some time and edit a video showing a player's journey.

I see you mentioned that you are focusing on in-game content, so I take it that: after a month and a half of delay you guys still haven't reached the point where you are just refining ?

And of course the guide needs to be much more detailed since that's the only solution for which it should balance the beta-tester / new player situation.I don't think you're stealing anyone's fun with informations,it's everyone's choice if they want to read the information provided or not

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Literally everything you're putting in my mouth is stuff I didn't wrote so I'm going to ignore your post.
 
Yamamoto

Yamamoto

Administrator
Staff member
GabiFX said:
embarrassing :)))
Click to expand...

Learn to write respectfully, without the unnecessary aggressiveness and entitlement. Maybe you will get an answer then. We are doing this in our spare time, we owe nothing to you, and we won't tolerate toxic behaviour against the team. There is a concept, we may have done a better or worse job at explaining it, but what should decide your choice of a server is the overall concept, not some trivial detail or another. And if the concept is well received, maybe the next time we will be able to afford to pay for someone to make video tutorials and the like, as if we were Blizzard.
 
GabiFX

GabiFX

New member
First of all I was being very respectful if somehow you didn't realize my message starts from hello, first mess is just an aspect I wanted to congratulate, Video tutorials? What the hell are you talking about? I was strictly referring to a video where you show the necessary things like the drop of stones/bosses a full inventory where u show us the weapons bonuses, the inventories etc and if u can t afford to pay someone for that let me pay for it . Or simply ask on discord surely there is an editor who would do it for a better presentation of the server.
 
DeCiMaToR

DeCiMaToR

Member
Sadly, I have to agree that the presentation is quite disappointing, both visually and in terms of information it provides.

Of course I understand that you rather finish in-game content etc., but please keep in mind that the presentation is like a flagship for the server, especially for people who have not heard about it before.
Also, if the presentation is done poorly, it will automatically lower the perceived quality of the server, no matter if this is true or not.

It was said before that "The name WoM2 is enough advertisement", but I really disagree on this.
Yes, it is an important part, and it is the reason why so many people are already hyped and spread the word, myself included.
But to people from the outside, who don't know the server, it will mean nothing. Also, some might've heard about the server, but when they see the presentation conclude that it will just be a cheap copy due to the low quality of it, and will not even try it.

I think it would be worth re-doing the presentation, even if it means investing some money. I am sure it would benefit the server in the long run.
 
Yamamoto

Yamamoto

Administrator
Staff member
DeCiMaToR said:
Sadly, I have to agree that the presentation is quite disappointing, both visually and in terms of information it provides.

Of course I understand that you rather finish in-game content etc., but please keep in mind that the presentation is like a flagship for the server, especially for people who have not heard about it before.
Also, if the presentation is done poorly, it will automatically lower the perceived quality of the server, no matter if this is true or not.

It was said before that "The name WoM2 is enough advertisement", but I really disagree on this.
Yes, it is an important part, and it is the reason why so many people are already hyped and spread the word, myself included.
But to people from the outside, who don't know the server, it will mean nothing. Also, some might've heard about the server, but when they see the presentation conclude that it will just be a cheap copy due to the low quality of it, and will not even try it.

I think it would be worth re-doing the presentation, even if it means investing some money. I am sure it would benefit the server in the long run.
Click to expand...

The presentation is based in the WoM3 presentation which in my oppinion is the most beautiful presentation WoM had. Unfortunately the whole concept was defined slightly late in the development stage not giving the designer enough time for something more elaborate. But nevertheless we are proud that it's different from the standard presentation which nowadays is always commissioned to the same 2 or 3 artists and all look the same.

We will certainly improve it later on but there are plenty of people showing interest in the server and we believe our focusshould be in a smooth start rather than pushing the marketing, something which can always be done later on.
 
Pachol

Pachol

Active member
Hey, let me bounce back your answers.

Yamamoto said:
The presentation is for marketing, it's supposed to show how the game looks like and the overall gameplay. It's not supposed to be an in depth instruction manual.

Regarding your unnecessary comments about the style, well - at least we have a style as opposed to hire the same designer as every other server to come up with a style for us.
Click to expand...

If its sole purpose is marketing it should be done in the best possible way, being eye-catchy, creating hype and interest in your project.
I feel the opposite, I have to believe that it is still on old WoM's level 'cause I couldn't learn too much from it. Your statement would be fine 10 years ago, now presentations are on different level, some are detailed guides, some go in depth of their new features - so players won't be afraid of them, and some are done in amazing way that leave us with "wow" effect. The best you can do is to check them on your own and compare to the new WoM's style, you will understand why I called it "poor and rusty".

Thank you for answering my questions, even tho they were just an examples how many things are still uknown, we don't need to know everything that I mentioned, if you could give me answer it means it is not something that should've been discovered by us. However, since there are answers I have few questions:

Yamamoto said:
2. Second chapter will bring an increase in level cap and gradual introduction of the additional content that comes with it. Furthermore, there will be a focus on guild and kingdom specific content.
Click to expand...
From this thread we can learn that you will add new content between chapters, wasn't it supposed to add main features, dungeons, level cap or items once the new chapter starts? Now I'm lost in idea behind chapters, I thought that only minor changes and bug fixes will appear between chapters.

Yamamoto said:
5. Why would we halve mage's buffs?
Click to expand...
Without telling too much - it was in mind of someone who is working with you now, thus I was curious if you decided to change it.

Yamamoto said:
7 Remove magic was nerfed long time ago, and it stays that way, as it was decided that it made pvp more fun.
Click to expand...
This is exactly what I'm talking about new players that never played WoM or were there only as casuals. For me, and 90% of players it might be obvious but for new ones it left to be discovered, while you could do it in presentation. Instead of telling me that sura has 6 skills, you could mention only changes on skills you did.

Yamamoto said:
8. Not sure what you mean by "reading 3 books at the same time"
Click to expand...
Those 3 books are normal book, secret and tome. Again, for me it's well-known info that we can learn 3 at the same time, I also know that Tome has better % reading chance and secret offers 1-3 points after successfully reading, is it known for a new player?


To the other comments above, it is not possible to re-do presentation right now, this one took already too much time.
I suggest you to let someone from youtubers visit your server and make a presentation, tell him/her what can be shown, what cannot.
You have many great youtubers in your community, you just have to ask, no need to say that you work in your spare time because it something that can be done with minor staff input.

Best regards,
Pachol.
 
DeCiMaToR

DeCiMaToR

Member
Yamamoto said:
We will certainly improve it later on but there are plenty of people showing interest in the server and we believe our focusshould be in a smooth start rather than pushing the marketing, something which can always be done later on.
Click to expand...

Yeah obviously, now all the focus should be targeted towards a flawless start, I totally agree.
The presentation quality should've been a topic beforehand, but it can still be improved later after the server is running. The forum threads will stay after all, so it will be worth.

Regarding the argument about the "presentations that look the same", sorry but this is not an argument.
The presentations might have similar visuals, but they have high quality, show the server features in detail etc.
And also, it is working, while on epvp, where I checked, the current presentation gets quite negative feedback already. :/

I am really not trying to be hateful - rather the opposite, I am trying to elaborate the issue, and I truly want the best for the server. I am sure everyone here does.

But please understand that people would rather hear something along the lines of
"We are aware that the presentation is not being preceived that well, and thus will improve and re-post it later on after the server has been launched."
or any other honest answer, where it becomes apparent that the criticism is being acknowledged, instead of giving excuses like "we try to be different".
 
L

LIschu

Member
Correct me if I'm wrong, because I haven't played in previous Wom's. All classes got their 6th skills and some boost on one of them like hp on Taichi or pierce chance + removed increased damage on Berserk, but sura weapon doesn't get any of that + his remove magic and fear is nerfed?
 
Last edited:
K

kiib

New member
LIschu said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, because I haven't played in previous Wom's. All classes got their 6th skills and some boost on one of them like hp on Taichi or pierce chance + removed increased damage on Berserk, but sura weapon doesn't get any of that + his remove magic and fear is nerfed?
Click to expand...
And this is why we need a proper presentation... just kidding; GO and discover yourself you lazy, ungrateful WoM2 player. Don't ask questions, ,,it's Wom2...try it anyway"'. Sorry for the rant bro...I can't get over the fact that he assumes people will play just because it's wom2...like who do you think you are? Only in Romania at this point there are servers with more players online than Wom2 has ever seen in it's existance...the arrogance of this stuff is unreal, but it's like that since forever so I guess will get a 2013-2015 experience anyway
 
skoupa

skoupa

Member
Baloo said:
Hello,

Buffs are 30% more effective if you use them on yourself.
Click to expand...
Hey, there are two scenarios from this info and I don't know if it's done on purpose or you guys are actually not good at being clear. Scenario #1: Mage gets 100% and the rest get 70%. (Nerf for the rest players) Scenario #2: Mage gets 130% and the rest get 100%. (Buff for the Mage)

100% = Same exact value from the old WoM2.
 
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