Jotun Thrym Controversy | WoM2 Forum

Jotun Thrym Controversy

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NeneaJonel

Legendary Promoter
I make this topic in order to emphasize the actual problems regarding the new awaited update and run: Jotun Thrym.
I am not doing this to complain or bring up hate upon staff, but we waited so long for this update and it's not as we expected it to be.

First of all, I want to share with you my point of view regarding this update and why I do think it could've been much better than this (I won't talk about the new map: Meadows of Tranquility).

1. Teamwork
We all wanted a run different from Meley, Razador, Earth Dragon, which most of the people are solo-doing now. This implies a run where you have to gather your guild in order to succeed. This is probably the only upside of this run. You can't just buy 5 different set of items and solo run Jotun. It's impossible. This means you have to join a guild, build a team that you can rely on and basically do your job as a member of the team. The idea of not being able to respawn yourself also encourages teamwork and brings in a use for the resurrection skill.

2. Damage and defense
Many of you probably know already what bonuses you need in order to make higher damage and take "less" damage at Jotun. But still, for the sake of not spoiling anything, I won't mention them. This topic is, in fact, one of the biggest problems of this run. I understand the idea of making a hard run, something that creates problems even for the best pvm players on the server, but there must be a limit between hard and impossible. I'm not saying the run is impossible. In fact, me and my guild completed the run more than 20 times. However, the mechanics of the run are beyond what the mechanics of this game should be. The damage works fine, you have enough damage to kill the boss with 3/4 polymorphed physical damage dealers, so the magical damage dealers can handle Jotun's healers. On the other hand, the defense doesn't work at all. I have myself 92% defense, 33,1k hp and full cl5 alchemy and I still get one shot by some of Jotun's skills. I know this is how the run works, but what is the point of this? Players are not even encouraged to find and roll for good items in order to farm Jotun, cause even with perfect equipment you die.

3. Investment
Here comes the interesting part of why is this update not as we expected. When you think about farming Jotun, you make an investment. First of all, you need keys. You craft the keys for Jotun with 3 Divine Flowers and 1 Insanity Pot. That's a 150kk investment just to enter the run. Then, you need items. You don't know what items you need cause there is no guide about Jotun (which is good) and you have to test the floor and use some keys to find out exactly what you need. Here comes the second investment, equipment. You search for the items you need and even if you're lucky to buy some from the market, you have to roll most of them yourself. After tons of changers and money wasted, you're finally done with equipment, even though there is always something you can improve. Next investment, alchemy. I don't wanna talk too much about alchemy, but the thing is you can't farm Jotun with only ruby equipped. Next on the list, pushes. You need liquids, vitality stones, haste potions, palms, tiger items. Last but not least, polymorph marbles. As I mentioned before, you die even with perfect equipment. That means you always need more poly marbles than you think. Alongside the new event with polymorph boxes, the market is overflowed with bad or useless polymorph marbles and all the good poly marbles went up in price even more. Considering that you need good poly marbles at Jotun, considering that you die a lot and the price of a good poly marble is 30kk+, this is another big investment for each run. Beside all of these, you have to make sure you have Ring of Will Power, Pet Seal and full ores on items. Another investment. But when you make an investment, you do it because you hope it will be worth in the future, do you? In fact, the answer depends on everyone's perception here. Jotun comes with 2 new item upgrades: Supreme belts, one upgraded belt for each 1v1 belt with better % bonus. (normal ones+9 with ores: 8% / supreme ones+9 with ores: 14%) and the new rings, tier 3 upgraded ring being the pvp version of the Ring of Will Power. When you think about this big investment, not even talking about the time consumed, is it all worth for the new belts and rings? Well, it depends on the actual drop of Jotun's chests, right?

4. Drop
Considering that this run implies teamwork, there are more players that have to split the drop. Considering the money and time invested, you probably think that these chests must be worth the investment. Sadly, no, not at all. The side drop of the chests is terrible. You get adders, changers, alchemy cores, phoenix art books, etc. And even the amount you receive is embarrassing. About the main drop of the chests, this ain't good either. I know it's all about luck and the new run and items are designed to be hard to do, but as I said before, there must be a limit between hard and impossible. I'll show you below the drop from 270 Jotun chests.
Just to clarify this for everyone: 0 rings, materials for 1 upgraded belt.


Before the conclusion of this topic, I want to ask some questions for those who think they are addressed to.
-> Why are there only 2 groups farming Jotun?
-> Why is there only 1 supreme belt and no tier 3 rings?
-> Why are the players that farm Jotun constantly complaining about the run and the players that don't farm it don't even try to?
-> Why did the hype that gathered around this update vanished so quickly?

To sum up all the points in this topic, I come up with 2(/3) solutions in order to solve these problems.

1. Modify the damage of Jotun in order to be able to stay alive with full resistance and good equipment.
2. Modify the main and the side drop of Jotun's chests, so even if you're having a hard time killing it and a big investment done to be all worth it for the whole group farming it.
3. Close your eyes and pretend that everything is fine exactly as it is. Ignore this stupid guy on forum and move forward to some important updates such as immortal horses.
 

Lukk

Well-Known Member
In my opinion there should be 2 kind of rings to gain. For pvp like right now and for pvm. Its would lure more ppl for it. Agreed for rest what you mentioned
 

Obelisk55

Member
I'm not saying that the update is entirely bad but I don't know how much this dungeon was tested. I didn't try the run myself, but assuming what some players that could do the run said, I pretty much agree to the fact that it's not so worth it, the drop should be slightly improved, it's not fun at all to invest in items/alchemy/ores/marbles etc and wasting time just farm the same amount of yin that you probably could farm doing solo dungeons..
 

Boghy8

Board Star
I think Nenea said all right and mirrors the thought of all players who joined/finished this run

An easy way to make it more "worth" it's to double the chest.
Right now you can drop 15, divided by 8 players, we can get 2coffers each run (1 player have to skip, and take only 1).

Considering the communication & coordination you need (love that <3), the pushes, polys, the equip, the alchemy, and so on, it's kinda"meh" to do this run atm ---> By increasing the numbers of coffers to 30/40, every player will get almost 3/4/5 coffers. Even is we keep the actual drop, it's gonna be way better.

Also, on average, metin's players prefer to have more coffers and less chance to get something better compared to fewer coffers but a higher chance to receive better rewards.

Last but not least, I agree with Nenea when he says that Jotun should not ONESHOT you with full resistance (or nearly to 100%), full cl5 alchemy, and tons of hp (I'm not considering the 9347560394754 of pushes xD). Maybe something should be done about this....but...BUT... I remember Paci said that 4/7 of Jotun's skills are based on character, so maybe that's why sometimes we get one-shot.
So for this reason, I said "maybe something should be done". Maybe it's something we do wrong. I don't know.


Overall I like the dungeon, even tho I would've changed something (personal).
With some more feedbacks, even tho only few players did this run, and with some info from Team Members, I think it's gonna be alright.


P.S. Don't get me wrong,I love the fact we'll need probably some months so see some New Belts +9 and New Rings. That's fantastic. I feel like we're back in 2017 with Nemere (not sure it was 2017 xD) and his grind to make the new items +9.
I just think we need some more coffers, in order to make it more fun. More coffers mean more hope to get that material upgrade you needed.
 
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Loki

Board Star
Honestly I personally would wait until the guide comes out before we judge the run.
As the dungeon is supposed to be doable in a group of 4 the drops per person double compared to a group of 8.
Im sure there are still mechanics none of the players have figured out so far.
My main problem with the run are the really bad chest rewards. If you get a single changer it feels like a slap in the face.
But as i said i think its too early to judge yet.
 

Broly

Active Member
Just make the drop abit better and it should be fine , the mechanics are okeish.. evne tho im tilted cause i die always.. but make the drop better to be somewhat worth.
It is good that its hard , i like it , but also make the drop good .
can't wait to present you after a while what me and my mates will achieve, after investing so much and already did alot of runs :).
It is very hard , and now u have the chance to be unique.
Though i don't play anymore, but it is funny to see you complaining.
 

Kiddu1

Board Star
Though i don't play anymore, but it is funny to see you complaining.
How am i complaining lol , i just said since is a guild member, i said what are my thoughts and btw let me show you something.
Ps : how am i complaining when i literally say the run is fine and to help others not get frustrated i think the drop should be slightly changed lol , poor broly

 
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Kiddu1

Board Star
Maybe you need to build the characters differently ? Maybe the 90+ bio needs to be build other way? Im just sayin'
even if you take hp at bio still won`t change much , you need alot of coordination to kill it .
Run is good how it is , just that the drop doesn`t satisfy the players for all the work .
PS: There is also a chance that we are doing something very wrong.. idk
 
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Steven

SGM & Game Designer
Staff member
Hello,
On the other hand, the defense doesn't work at all. I have myself 92% defense, 33,1k hp and full cl5 alchemy and I still get one shot by some of Jotun's skills.
What if I tell you that this one-shot skill is dodgeable? That's why you were always dying to it, I will mention it in guide with a gif, so you'll see better.
Also if you are low on HP, you should run and regen HP or change the focus of Jotun for 5 seconds with a white flag, so you can get some HP and back to fight.
It is simply unwise to keep attacking in the same spot.

When you think about this big investment, not even talking about the time consumed, is it all worth for the new belts and rings
If you want to rule the PvP scene - yes, it is worth but... the problem is lack of PvP in general, there is no such interest in grinding for pvp gear.
Firstly, we need to recude price of poly marbles, as you said (and I agree with you), you have to spend a lot of money on it.
From the screenshot attached here, I can see ~600k Yin per run <excluding new items>. It's not bad at all if we take into account that this run was designed for groups of 4 or 5 players. It's like joining Meley run with 3 different players and ask for a better loot. I understand that you can't finish this run, like we did while testing it, thus slightly boost on drop is necessary.

I know it's all about luck and the new run and items are designed to be hard to do, but as I said before, there must be a limit between hard and impossible
In other words, you would like to finish the new content faster? It is possible to drop a new Alraune's Ring but you have to grind for it and upgrading will be even harder. The main reason this may seem impossible is that you are one of the two groups of jotun's farmers, so even if you would drop a ring, you probably won't have enough materials to upgrade it.

Why are there only 2 groups farming Jotun?
Because it requires 6-8 active players, and WoM2 has recently become a single-player game.
Why is there only 1 supreme belt and no tier 3 rings?
There are only two groups farming Jotun, that's why. It's a new content, so you have to grind for it, otherwise you'd finish it in 1-3 months and ask for something new again.
Why are the players that farm Jotun constantly complaining about the run and the players that don't farm it don't even try to?
It's a really hard dungeon, and there is a very low demand for PvP items from it, so you have no real income.
Why did the hype that gathered around this update vanished so quickly?
The content update was only for high levels, the new items were made only for PvP players and this is a low percentage of our player base.

1. Modify the damage of Jotun in order to be able to stay alive with full resistance and good equipment.
As I said earlier, try to dodge some of his skills (you can't dodge his thunder skill), run a bit to regen HP, then tell me if it's still too hard to survive.
I can also add that when the jotun has less than ~10% HP, he can kill with one hit, the so-called rage-mode.

2. Modify the main and the side drop of Jotun's chests, so even if you're having a hard time killing it and a big investment done to be all worth it for the whole group farming it.
Ok, accepted.

3. Close your eyes and pretend that everything is fine exactly as it is. Ignore this stupid guy on forum and move forward to some important updates such as immortal horses.
I understand your frustration, but this point was unnecessary. Thank you for your constructive feedback!
 

Kiddu1

Board Star
Hello,

What if I tell you that this one-shot skill is dodgeable? That's why you were always dying to it, I will mention it in guide with a gif, so you'll see better.
Also if you are low on HP, you should run and regen HP or change the focus of Jotun for 5 seconds with a white flag, so you can get some HP and back to fight.
It is simply unwise to keep attacking in the same spot.


If you want to rule the PvP scene - yes, it is worth but... the problem is lack of PvP in general, there is no such interest in grinding for pvp gear.
Firstly, we need to recude price of poly marbles, as you said (and I agree with you), you have to spend a lot of money on it.
From the screenshot attached here, I can see ~600k Yin per run <excluding new items>. It's not bad at all if we take into account that this run was designed for groups of 4 or 5 players. It's like joining Meley run with 3 different players and ask for a better loot. I understand that you can't finish this run, like we did while testing it, thus slightly boost on drop is necessary.


In other words, you would like to finish the new content faster? It is possible to drop a new Alraune's Ring but you have to grind for it and upgrading will be even harder. The main reason this may seem impossible is that you are one of the two groups of jotun's farmers, so even if you would drop a ring, you probably won't have enough materials to upgrade it.


Because it requires 6-8 active players, and WoM2 has recently become a single-player game.

There are only two groups farming Jotun, that's why. It's a new content, so you have to grind for it, otherwise you'd finish it in 1-3 months and ask for something new again.

It's a really hard dungeon, and there is a very low demand for PvP items from it, so you have no real income.

The content update was only for high levels, the new items were made only for PvP players and this is a low percentage of our player base.


As I said earlier, try to dodge some of his skills (you can't dodge his thunder skill), run a bit to regen HP, then tell me if it's still too hard to survive.
I can also add that when the jotun has less than ~10% HP, he can kill with one hit, the so-called rage-mode.


Ok, accepted.


I understand your frustration, but this point was unnecessary. Thank you for your constructive feedback!
:heart:
 

donnoob

Well-Known Member
Can you show alraune’s ring as well ? And how it works. What is your price for this belt +9 ?
How am i complaining lol , i just said since is a guild member, i said what are my thoughts and btw let me show you something.
Ps : how am i complaining when i literally say the run is fine and to help others not get frustrated i think the drop should be slightly changed lol , poor broly

 
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