Ninja, The current PvM situation

[Proteus]

I suggest turning the ambush pvm bonus (currently 15% Monsters at P) in a passive bonus rather than an active. As far as i understood from the GMs (If i remember corectly Mamut or Sheen even tested it, i dont know which one anymore), right now the extra monsters only works as an active for the ambush but who even uses the ambush in pvm tbh?

I get that the ninja isnt supposed to be strong in pvm but why does the sura bm get a special treatment?


The Ritual of Doom pvm bonus also works an an active but the difference is that the skill hits every 2 seconds meanwhile the ninja ambush skill has a much higher cooldown (like 10s i think).

Yes, the sura bm is intended for nemere but he also is the strongest lv 60 farmer reaching (with good eq ofc) around 25-30k crit on ritual of doom + 3k hit in stones.

Maybe lower the ambush 15% monsters bonus a bit (at 10% for example) but make it a passive bonus.

So the Warrior is obviously the strongest high lvl char on the server, Sura BM is the best 60 farmer + best nemere char, the saman is pretty decent aswell (same dmg as a sura), Weaponry-Sura is decent too but what about the ninja? Can we give him some love?

 

[Latherluk]

+1

 

[TVA]

Poly ninja is best in terms of dps for metins(85/90) so if it's just for skills - it's ok.
if it's for hits too - it's gonna make poly ninja more powerful.

 

[Latherluk]

Poly ninja is best in terms of dps for metins(85/90) so if it's just for skills - it's ok.
if it's for hits too - it's gonna make poly ninja more powerful.

Arent u warrior? How do you know how powerful ninja is?

 

[TVA]

Arent u warrior? How do you know how powerful ninja is?

ask StforPHARM, how much he kills per hour in helia

 

[Tekno]

Sure, there are fewer pvm ninja players than warriors or suras. But I'd guess it's because it requires you to change your playstyle, and when you are starting off on the server it is not ideal to play as ninja. Oh and yeah, keep in mind, bosses have got their daggers resistance lowered lately.

I suggest turning the ambush pvm bonus (currently 15% Monsters at P) in a passive bonus rather than an active. As far as i understood from the GMs (If i remember corectly Mamut or Sheen even tested it, i dont know which one anymore), right now the extra monsters only works as an active for the ambush but who even uses the ambush in pvm tbh?

Sure, probably not many if even anyone uses ambush for farming (Snake can prolly get the exact number) but making it a passive with 10-15% could be an overkill imo. Then ask yourself what with the archer? Sure, archers got feather walk with avg dmg reduction but it lasts what? 1 min on P at best? (don't have the exact number) but if you are farming in poly (on P) then you get 34 min of being weaker compared to a dagger *if the suggestion was 1:1 applied*

I don't doubt ninja poly does decent on a mid-high level but what makes it unattractive to new comers would be probably the low-level stage.


To sum it up: IMO - if ninjas were to be buffed, the changes could be targeted at low level players to encourage them to keep playing with this class and not just pivoting or quitting. What kind of change you may ask? Maybe extending the poly duration or slightly increasing the dmg when shifted?
As of to changes for high lvl - if Snakeu agrees with you that ninja poly farmers on mid-higher level could use a buff then my suggestion would be to make it maybe class dependent meaning:
a) Archers - the defensive class (because of feather walk) - the feather walk lasts throughout the whole poly duration and maybe has the values a bit tweaked- it's an option for players who prefer the safer solution.
b) Dagger - the offensive class - a solution for risk taking players which doesn't help you with survivability, but you get some sort of damage increase (values of course would be tested)
Both could scale depending on level of their skill - archers - maybe feather walk & dagger - maybe stealth.
Imo the changes should not affect their pvp ability as they are already quite strong mid-high lvl (with the emphasis on high lvl)
Of course, it's a big 'IF' and depends on how the GDs want to shift the server but they have proved in the past that they are open-minded to new suggestions even if sometimes the alleged issue have been since the server opened.
Probably some of these thoughts are prone to exploits so they wouldn't end up going through but thought I'd leave my thoughts here anyway.

edit: immune to knock down (while in poly) also would not be a bad buff

 

[Lestat]

I suggest turning the ambush pvm bonus (currently 15% Monsters at P) in a passive bonus rather than an active. As far as i understood from the GMs (If i remember corectly Mamut or Sheen even tested it, i dont know which one anymore), right now the extra monsters only works as an active for the ambush but who even uses the ambush in pvm tbh?

I get that the ninja isnt supposed to be strong in pvm but why does the sura bm get a special treatment?


The Ritual of Doom pvm bonus also works an an active but the difference is that the skill hits every 2 seconds meanwhile the ninja ambush skill has a much higher cooldown (like 10s i think).

Yes, the sura bm is intended for nemere but he also is the strongest lv 60 farmer reaching (with good eq ofc) around 25-30k crit on ritual of doom + 3k hit in stones.

Maybe lower the ambush 15% monsters bonus a bit (at 10% for example) but make it a passive bonus.

So the Warrior is obviously the strongest high lvl char on the server, Sura BM is the best 60 farmer + best nemere char, the saman is pretty decent aswell (same dmg as a sura), Weaponry-Sura is decent too but what about the ninja? Can we give him some love?

Ninja with bow and poly is better the BM Sura.
BM Sura can't do boss as ninja can, and the advantage he has in PvM is ONLY vs metins, so no boost for killing mobs (like the ones spawned by metins) and bosses (not counting the beautiful weapon you have to wear until lv 96 at least, right Poison Sword -10 Skill and 0 Magic Attack ?)

 

[Latherluk]

Ninja with bow and poly is better the BM Sura.
BM Sura can't do boss as ninja can, and the advantage he has in PvM is ONLY vs metins, so no boost for killing mobs (like the ones spawned by metins) and bosses (not counting the beautiful weapon you have to wear until lv 96 at least, right Poison Sword -10 Skill and 0 Magic Attack ?)

BM sura cant do bosses? How so? The Sura BM is the best Nemere char. And btw on the bm, you use Lion sword not poison since it has magic attack.

 

[Snake]

Hello!

I understand that the ninja might not be the perfect character for PvM, and unfortunately, there's not much we can do to change that. Typically, when you think of a ninja, PvP comes to mind first. While we do our best to integrate every character into PvM scenarios, we can't make the ninja overpowered just to match its effectiveness in PvP. The polymorphed ninja state is indeed incredibly powerful for taking down mobs due to its high damage output. However, to balance things out, most mobs are designed with increased resistance against such encounters to prevent it from becoming too overpowered.

Additionally, as we've mentioned in previous patches, we're working on making daggers more relevant in PvM situations. With the upcoming content, you'll find that the new mobs will have a bit less resistance to dagger attacks, aiming to provide a more balanced gameplay experience.

Thanks for your feedback,
Snake

 

[Stforjanka]

Damage wise poly ninja PvM is absolutely fine I would go as far to say incredibly strong. Even when we consider beta bow resistance, poly ninja can still outfarm every other class easily. You pay for that fact with how easy you are to kill, but with some skill you can play around that.

Its the little bugs and dependencies around gameplay that make it annoying such as stones not dying immedietely after being destroyed on some poly's or looking for marbles and having to sort through 200 plagued swordman.

I play PvM ninja exclusively, so the buff would benefit me greatly, but if I'm being honest I think its very strong right now and fine as it is.

 

[Blasphem]

Hello!

I understand that the ninja might not be the perfect character for PvM, and unfortunately, there's not much we can do to change that. Typically, when you think of a ninja, PvP comes to mind first. While we do our best to integrate every character into PvM scenarios, we can't make the ninja overpowered just to match its effectiveness in PvP. The polymorphed ninja state is indeed incredibly powerful for taking down mobs due to its high damage output. However, to balance things out, most mobs are designed with increased resistance against such encounters to prevent it from becoming too overpowered.

Additionally, as we've mentioned in previous patches, we're working on making daggers more relevant in PvM situations. With the upcoming content, you'll find that the new mobs will have a bit less resistance to dagger attacks, aiming to provide a more balanced gameplay experience.

Thanks for your feedback,
Snake

Hello,

Just a piece of information. Will the planned changes be able to positively impact the ability of ninjas in pvm even at lower levels? I think that in fact the real difficulty with ninjas is encountered precisely in the early or intermediate stages of the game, where the use of daggers is totally useless. This results in the ninja using the sword exclusively and being reduced to a lesser performing version of a Warrior or sura, having no buff. It would be nice to be able to make sense of ninjas with daggers during all phases of the game as well.
Clearly this has always been like this in this game, but given the changes made on the other classes as well, it would be nice to have an adjustment for ninjas too, perhaps without introducing bonuses that might - if you think so - make the class unbalanced when using polymorph, but at least reducing metin/mob/boss dagger resistances at each level of the game.

Thanks

 

[Lestat]

BM sura cant do bosses? How so? The Sura BM is the best Nemere char. And btw on the bm, you use Lion sword not poison since it has magic attack.

1) Uao is the best vs Nemere, so the best BM can do is to defeat a boss that don't exists atm, so is better than a ninja ? XD
2) You are clearly not a BM, the dmg to stones is not a problem, even with a poison you can deal 8k clean easily with RoT, the problem is the dmg to mobs, RoT doesn't hurt mobs as does to metins (so the Lion Sword "advantage" is useless), you have basically 0 PvM bonus vs mobs as BM Sura for this reason.
3) Ninja is broken in PvM even at lower levels like lv 60, just bring poly a P and use a 30 bow 40+avg and u will see (not counting the skill of the Bow Ninja which gives u average dmg resistance)

 

[Stforjanka]

3) Ninja is broken in PvM even at lower levels like lv 60, just bring poly a P and use a 30 bow 40+avg and u will see (not counting the skill of the Bow Ninja which gives u average dmg resistance)

Ninja is kinda broken at helia/red forest and below, but to get to that point u have to start with other char and then invest into ninja, so it sets u back anyways. And at 90 stones u always need max resistance + defence either from ruby or dragon earrings or you just waste poly and yangs.

Compared to other servers it's not even that crazy, especially at beta where u lose 50% dmg compared to 90 stones, much more than warrior does. I find it rather balanced here.

The skill of bow ninja is active, not passive, so it doesn't give you anything on poly since you are not going to go out of polly to reapply the skill.